@captainmajestic are you saying you would've rather been killed and not given a chance?

Actually it is not her body because it is the body of the child. So "not her body, not her choices". This is similar to the argument that caused smoking in public buildings illegal. Because if what you are doing is harming another person then you no longer have the right to do it.

Good morning all you funsubstancers out there. In reply to the last comment, a child has the potential to kill someone even out side of the womb. There are plenty stories out there about children picking up a parents gun or stabbing their parent after a psychotic break. Now after a little bit of research I now see that the maternal death rates may be higher than previously thought so I will have to do more in looking into that. Thank you for the argument :). I guess we are arguing semantics at this juncture. But do you see the point I am trying to make? Anything is potentially dangerous, that doesn't mean we should dispose of them. Cars are potentially dangerous, other people are the biggest dangers. We can't just dispose of them because of a chance.

Just for informational purposes, it is sleepytime of this ideaologist so I will check back with so of you tomorrow :)

But the argument at hand is whether society's view on abortion is wrong or flawed so you can't say that the society we live in calls that murder because a lot of soceity calls abortion murder too. Not to mention in an argument such as this, you cannot use societal definitions as a scape goat for an argument. There was a question of "if it is thought that a child could ruin your life, can you dispose of it". The answer applies to both cases in a nonsubjective view.

@german_satan , I just want to clarify. Are you say saying at If i have a four year old child and I can't ford food for myself because the child needs food (thus causing me to ruin myself) I can dispose of the child how I see fit?

@i_ cancer is in no way natural. Cancer is caused by mutations and damaging to cells in the host. Cancer is not a parasite either. And a zygote is considered an individual by law due
To the double homicide rule if a pregnant woman is murdered. Also it is considered an individual because while it relies on the mother for nutrients, it is able to reproduce its own cells and grow its own body. The nutrients side things is I will admit a little bit of grey area between a parasite and zygote. That much there is no real good argument for.

If you want to have sex, assume the responsibility of the consequences of your actions. It is similar to the OP argument about cancer. The correct analogy here although would be that if you smoke, you can't just get rid of the cancer that could develop. If you have sex and get pregnant, you have to assume responsibility for your actions.

@german_satan , I am not unsure of what your argument is here but in regards to the pieces of it individually, to the first sentence, if I Kill someone today I am not murdering it, I am just stopping it from growing any further and potentially ruining my or its life. Again as I stated above, it is about the "me myself and I" mentatilty. It might ruin my life so let's dispose of it. Not, it could have a great life or it could potentially be a wonderful person. To your second comment, there are not too many people on this planet. According to recent research it is possible to take all of the people in this planet and fit them within the state of California. There is still plenty of room. To your third sentence, I have stated already that I plan on adopting at a later time. I don't understand what you are saying in your fourth sentence and so forth. But if I am reading it the way I think, I agree. There is a reason my girlfriend and I do not have sex and it is so we do not have that chanc

Define a person please.

I really do like the ideas that you are presenting. But most importantly thank you for keeping this discussion civil and intellectual :)

No the sperm and egg do not fulfill the criteria of life. Those criteria are not fulfilled by sperm and egg are that they can not grow, they can not adapt to their environment and they do not have any levels or organization. I have never thought of the nosebleed argument and I admit it makes some sense but nosebleeds do not count as losing humans because your blood is a make up of YOUR human body. A baby is not a made up of YOUR human body because it has its own DNA makeup. That is what makes it its own being. It
Is a human because it contains the chromosomal makeup of a human and is the resultant of human reproduction. A natural occurrence. And a baby is not a parasite because a parasite is a foreign object in a host. Where as a baby part of the reproductive cycle so it is not a foreign object in your body.

Girlfriend and I get married. It really comes down to they fact that many many lives are needed for the sole purpose of "me myself and I" mentality and the idea that the child MIGHT not have a good quality of life. Which i my mind is compltely crazy because all life is precious. From human babies to the babies of the mice in my shed to the babies of the deer in the woods. All life is precious and it should be handled that way in this messed up world we have. It is the only way we can continue on and hold our humanity.

@peachypersimmon the number of rape abortions is less than 0.5% of the total amount. This would be like saying that a gun owner shoots someone so all gun owners should go to jail for this reason even though it's such a small percentage. @jokur_and_batmon it is possible to have complications during pregnancy, although infrequent as it is. It is the same analogy as the one stated above. Now for the quality of life argument I can only offer one point of view. Imagine you walked into a job interview and before they even saw your resume or looked at you or said anything to you they just walked out and said "sorry, but no". It is not a matter or IF the child will have a good life. It is a matter of the child having a chance to have that life. Just life you would like the chance to succeed at your career. And before anyone says anything about if you think it is fine then why don't you adopt children, I plan on adopting children as soon as I am in a good enough place in my life and my

Your argument is flawed. A human being is conceived at conception because the sperm and the egg have met. This creates a being that contains the 46 chromosomes that it takes to make a human being. Masurbation is not genocide because the sperm and egg do not ever meet which means that a embryo of that species (in this case human) is never formed. At the point of conception, the biological definition of life is fulfilled which means that it is now considered a human. Whereas masturbation, there is no union and the make up of that organisms doesn't not meet this criteria and is not considered an organism of that species. This is similar to saying that an soda can and a beer can are not the same thing when in fact they are because their atomic makeup is the same. Aluminum is still aluminum whether it's a can or a rod just like a human is stil a human whether it is still in womb or not.

Again. I said I disagree with you about your opinion but I respect your right to hold that opinion. No reason to be rude.

I greatly enjoy him in The Walking Dead. And quite honestly to me, if an actor does a good enough job to be a very well loved character in 7 seasons, he must not be that bad.

I just wanted to voice that I disagree with you. But I respect your right to have a different opinion.

This is true. I stand corrected in that I should have specified that.

Organic food is not BS in anyway. When it comes to animals it's actually pretty big because non organic food can mean that the beef or chicken or whatever was fed antibiotics to make them less likely to get diseases. But the problem with this is that if you feed people animals that have been given antibiotics and what not, then this causes the bacteria it is targeting to build a resistance to the antibiotics before even getting to the humans. Thus making antibiotics useless when needed. It's a pretty big issue in the healthcare and pharmacy industries. GMOs could just mean that they were genetically chosen meaning they chose one cow to breed with another. Not necessarily any time of genetic alterations in terms of humans editing them or feeding them any weird chemicals to alter them.

Biologically speaking as soon as the sperm and egg Connect and begin to produce cells, the fetus is a human being. Molecularly it is the same comparison as a wood box to a shelf. Look different but are both wood. And biologically it is a living thing because it meets the five characteristics of life. I don't feel like reposting those characteristics as I have posted it in a different comment on this picture but if you want to for simple searching reason I will. Just let me know.

Not to mention they are still molecularly made up the same way as a full growth adult. A steel rod and a can of food look different but are still made of steel. Also, according to
http://www.operationrescue.org/about-abortion/abortions-in-america/
11.6% of abortions are committed by teenagers. That means the 88.4% of abortions are not teenage abortions so the argument about teenagers having sex 1. Again need to think of consequences 2. The majority of abortions are not even committed for this reason.

It does not save more lives. It kills more lives but makes your conscience feel better because you think it's being done "safer" and it keeps the kids out of the system which means you don't have to support them anymore. The problem isn't that there are too many kids in the system. The problem is that there are too many people that are openly having sex without thinking of the consequences. The problem is that the "safe" way revolves around ending a life. And yes it is a life. The biological five characteristics of a life 1. They are made of organized cells (check) 2. They obtain and use energy (check) 3. They grow and develop (check) 4.They reproduce (check) 5. They respond to their environment (check) ...

A person shouldn't be punished with lug cancer all the life just because they smoked...same argument. Actions have consequences.

You are not putting the baby's life above the woman's life thought. you're putting the baby's life above the women's pain and hormones. That's a good trade if you are a decent human being. And baby's do have consciousness.